Curse

brian78wa · Apr 09, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abarra

If you're looking for cry babies why not call out the origianal pvpers that went whining to anet about necros in the first place and got this nerf for us...

Thank You.
this nerf WAS brought on by PvPers whining that necro was over powered by SR. If this is the case then why wasnt every Halls winner an all necro team?
Obviously some groups were able to beat them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abarra

separate pvp and pve skills and the problem vanishes...

or is that too easy.

While it would be nice for this. It isnt the right solution. Because the Issue lies in HA more than anything so to keep all of PvP nerfed wouldnt really be the best either. The solution is simple as ive said before. Just dont allow Energy gain from spirits at all. And maybe half from minions would work too.

elsalamandra · Apr 09, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

It really makes me laugh at the draconian nerf that Anerf (anet) have given the necromancer.

All because some spoiled whinning PvP players who think they are God's gift to GW and love to insult and humiliate those who do not belong to their clique have gone crying to Anerf.

"Boo-hoo SR is too powerfull Boo-hoo I am getting pawned Boo-hoo Boo-hoo"

Of course these asskissers get heard and Anerf simply comply with these wishes without looking at the consequences and implications for the rest of us who in their eyes are just another whining lot when we ask for storage etc etc.

This last nerf and yes its a nerf not a balance is the one that takes the cookie.

ORBITUARY

Here lies the remains of the Profession of The Necromancer.

Was truimphant and effective when things died in its proximity.

Now destroyed by its creator Dr Frankenanet.

RIP

If the ubber 1337 pvp freaks (to those who fit'eth the hat wear it) have been so concerned about it why, using their far superior brain power which they claim to have over us PvE players, have they not come out with a counter to this and decided to rant and rave to anerf.

Does this mean they are like us pvr players, OMG, dont let anerf know about this. you guys are going to fall from grace.

olly123 · Apr 09, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

Actually it IS PvP that brought on the nerf to SR. And wtf do people keep bringing up MMS? NOt all necros are MMs.

why ppl keep bring up MM's is because they also brought about the nerf to SR, it was not jsut Spirts. they nerfed spirts but then necros brough minions to keep energy. and in PVE the minion master always had high energy, so did other necros, this imo is overpowerment, if it wants the monk would b able to cast 10 -15 energy spesl over and over again and still b on 40 energy

Quote:

Why on earth would you not Echo SS? Get the max dmg going on all foes by echoing it. GoLe only reduces cost not kills them faster

because now u cant echo it ur goign to have to learn to manage ur energy. and 9 out of 10 times the group would scatter makeing it usless. and with a 10 secon recharge u can apply it again but just not as fast

vdz · Apr 09, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Yes the mm like it used to be had a good energy maintenance but keeping your minions alive and spamming new ones in big battles requires allot of energy to. And when battling, most times the mobs die at the same time or close to eachother, this means that ur using ur your energy in peak times like at the time you need new minions (at the end of the battle since 85% of the mobs die at the same duo 2 AoE dmg) and from that point you will only get energy from dying minions And btw the max amount of minions you are able to have is 10 (nerved that 2, was unlimited). So what do you want do with your remaining energy... spam monk skills? Like that would be useful.

This is just another sign that anet doesn’t have a clue how to balance all this. They just keep nerving until everyone is upset and quit this game. If they think this is the option, nerving nerving nerving nerving then im really disappointed in Anet. I think its just a lack of insight and just the easy option.
They better realize what they are doing and if they continue like this i think allot of players will quit.
If i compare GW now with how it used to be i feel there are more negative things taking place then good things.

Maybe some words from Anet? I found the arguments they gave us for there 1337 balance (nerv shower) far from convincing.

Spura · Apr 09, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Shouts/Chants working on NPCs is (was) an issue in PvP...

Thank god the game isn't balanced around AB.....

If NPCs were the issue, why was Anthem of Fury changed but Anthem of Envy wasn't? What are you gonna do with Anthem of Fury that affects allies? Those 2 knights in gvg gonna spam too much sever artery? It is absurd.

I never said game should be balanced around AB, but what I hate is changes that break a skill in other modes than gvg when a different change would suffice that didn't break the skill in other modes.

brian78wa · Apr 09, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

why ppl keep bring up MM's is because they also brought about the nerf to SR, it was not jsut Spirts. they nerfed spirts but then necros brough minions to keep energy. and in PVE the minion master always had high energy, so did other necros, this imo is overpowerment, if it wants the monk would b able to cast 10 -15 energy spesl over and over again and still b on 40 energy

Again Ill say this. Most groups dont have 2 necros in PvE. Alot of people these days go with heroes/Hench with only 1 necro. Seeing as how Hench/Heroes are better then most pugs anyways.(This forum here proving this.) So what if 1 Necro has energy. WE are the ones that provide energy management for others. Every SS(if they play it right) has BR for the other casters. So we have SR for us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

9 out of 10 times the group would scatter makeing it usless.

The foes dont run away till below 50% and at that time all but 3 would run so its no where near useless. Take out the 3 then another 3 would come.
People think that 55/SS in UW was nerfed when truly it wasnt. If you know what your doing.

But I for one and done arguing because people just dont seem to get it. Ill just sum it up here.

1. ALL necros are NOT MMs so stop saying MMs are too over powered.
2. The abuse IS from PvP so just stop allowing energy gain from Spirits problem solved.
3. Dont call the PvE players whiners for being upset about SR nerf. Its the Pvpers that are the whiners because they couldnt beat the necro teams.(There are alot of people that can so if youre not good enough dont whine about it.)

Miral · Apr 09, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

why ppl keep bring up MM's is because they also brought about the nerf to SR, it was not jsut Spirts. they nerfed spirts but then necros brough minions to keep energy. and in PVE the minion master always had high energy, so did other necros, this imo is overpowerment, if it wants the monk would b able to cast 10 -15 energy spesl over and over again and still b on 40 energy

you're comparing classes in completely the wrong way. yes, necromancers had a lot of energy gain from soul reaping. But almost all of their more useful spells cost 15-25 energy per cast.I know because one of my favorite characters is an MM, and the minion spells that are considered CHEAP cost 15 energy heh... plus keeping the minions alive can also get expensive
Whereas monks, while they don't get any passive energy gain, have a ton of 5 energy spells that are very powerful. I know because one of my other favorite characters is my healer, who uses all 5 energy spells (except for rebirth) and can keep a group alive through a big battle in, say, FoW, and still have 35+ energy at the end.

Shendaar · Apr 09, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

So many whiners. The "nerf" isn't even 1/100 as bad as you guys make it sound to be. You guys make it sound like the necro class is now unplayable, which is completely absurd. It doesn't take much brain power to comprehend that anything that gives you infinite energy with no skill slots required is not balanced and that is true for both pve and pvp. Its not like PvE is hard or anything ... even FoW is a joke.

So many poeple here are like kids crying because they broke/lost their favorite toy. I mean c'mon ... its not even that big of a deal.

LordDeArnise · Apr 10, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Hhmmm, MM's, trappers, beastmasters, air Eles and Dervs got a real treat on this update, while domming mesmers sort of got nerfed. Wars got a pretty suitable trade-off.

Darth Animal · Apr 10, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Hopefully the ill-thought-out change to Soul Reaping will be removed as quickly as possible - it certainly makes playing a useful Minion Master pretty hard unless there's someone spamming BiP or BR in the party. Why pick on a PvE character for such a nerf...?

I've not tried a mesmer in PvE since the change, but the use of the weasel word "change" instead of "increase" or "decrease" leads me to expect trouble!

Of course, if Anet keep the nerfing of Soul Reaping, then maybe the benefit of Expertise for rangers will soon only be allowed for one skill per 10 seconds, say... and the same for the Divine Favour boost to monkish healing skills? Oops, I shouldn't give them ideas...

wajj · Apr 10, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

When playing a MM in PvE I normally carried Animate Shambling Horror and Animate Bone Fiend. I would normally have to wait for the skill recharge on Shambling Horrors or energy recharge on Fiends to raise one. Now I have to wait for energy recharge on both but it runs slow enough that I wind up using BoTM in there as well which slows down minion building as well. Experimented with bringing Animate Bone Horror as well -- helps but . . .

Running as an Echoed Spiteful Spirit build is now difficult. Awaken the Blood, Arcane Echo, and Spiteful Spirit pretty much wipe my energy (as before) but now when something dies, I still have to wait for recharge for any other primary spells (Insidious Parasite, etc). My secondary spells such as Parasitic Bond only draw away from the energy needed for my damage dealing.

Does this make the necro class unplayable? No, it does not. It does however make them less effective, limits the build options, and will make them even less attractive to play. Expertise on my Ranger is now a far better energy management tool than Soul Reaping is on my Necro.

The best fix I can see (in my opinion) is to remove the Soul Reaping benefit for spirits, either give only 50% Soul Reaping for minions or remove that completely as well, but continue to give full SR benefit for other deaths. Don't penalize the necro because the party kills things too quickly.

Bankai · Apr 10, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Elsalamandra.

Please don't talk as if you know anything about HA.

Spiritway gave complete retards a lot of power. It made it possible for horrible people to beat good people.

And this game is called Guild Wars.

Not Build Wars.

cthulhu reborn · Apr 10, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Problem is that Spiteful Spirit as a spell and minions in general are so much more powerful than anything else in the necro range of skills that there is little point in playing anything else...for one because you cannot hope to do as well as those 2 builds and 2ndly because other players shun you for not using the 2 prevalent builds.

Nerfing SR does not do anything about that. And what it was supposed to do isn't really working if I must believe from the PvP side that the N/Rt spirit spammer still works in PvP.

tomcruisejr · Apr 10, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

It's been a little more than 23months since the release of Prophecies and suddenly Anet is thinking that Necros (not only MMs, the whole class!) are overpowered for PvE?

When A.Net adds skills to the skill pool, new imbalances arise. And if these imbalances are balanced, new imbalances STILL arise. Too bad, after the previous problems (Rit spike etc) were solved, necros and soul reaping gained playtime and power. As usual, they're used in not your usual EvIL balanced template (or variation) thus people labeled them gimmick/overpowered which warrant for a "fix" coz people think that this game should not be Build Wars (LOL Should be Wars : Balanced Build Only). They "fix" the skills based on THE benchmark, the 8vs8 GvG , a controlled environment where no level 34 monsters, global environment effect or spectral agony from the floating mursaats exist, and THE Balanced Build (yea the stereotype), the build that will assure you praises if you excelled in running it. The only way to justify the changes to other modes is to find something that doesn't feel fair, like finishing an 8 or 12 man mission with 3-4 people using the class (LOL) or wondering why necros gain unlimited amount of energy from death after 23 months since release(LOL) or necros in AB is overpowered because there are 12 enemys and n npcs thus they have the potential to gain 12+n X soulreaping energy (LOL).

Quote:

Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

Yea.

Operations · Apr 10, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I mean seriously, I've tried out my Blood, Curses, and Death builds since the change. They still keep chugging right along. No issues. I play both PvE and PvP, and I still don't see any real difference in my energy gain. I'm just not wasting as much now. Before I got it faster than I could use it. My Elementalist has an average pool of 85, GoLE, and he still has more energy issues than my Necromancer.

The vibe I'm getting here (apologies to [VIBE]) is that a whole bunch of PvE kids are now upset that they can't just solo areas with their Necro. Boo hoo. It's a multiplayer game for a reason. Work with other people, they will still be happy to have you. I bet most of these whiners were the same people telling the Eles to go cry in the corner when the AoE nerf happened. Well, it did, and Eles are still here. So will be Necros.

Really, the only people that got a legit reason to cry are Mesmer players, cause their class gets hit EVERY FRIKKIN UPDATE because of every other class in the game abusing their energy management.

Narcism · Apr 10, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I mean seriously, I've tried out my Blood, Curses, and Death builds since the change. They still keep chugging right along. No issues. I play both PvE and PvP, and I still don't see any real difference in my energy gain. I'm just not wasting as much now. Before I got it faster than I could use it. My Elementalist has an average pool of 85, GoLE, and he still has more energy issues than my Necromancer.

The vibe I'm getting here (apologies to [VIBE]) is that a whole bunch of PvE kids are now upset that they can't just solo areas with their Necro. Boo hoo. It's a multiplayer game for a reason. Work with other people, they will still be happy to have you. I bet most of these whiners were the same people telling the Eles to go cry in the corner when the AoE nerf happened. Well, it did, and Eles are still here. So will be Necros.

Really, the only people that got a legit reason to cry are Mesmer players, cause their class gets hit EVERY FRIKKIN UPDATE because of every other class in the game abusing their energy management.

Good post.
"I outfitted my character with the exact build and it doesn't work anymore, I'm bewildered"

mortis corpus · Apr 10, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I mean seriously, I've tried out my Blood, Curses, and Death builds since the change. They still keep chugging right along. No issues. I play both PvE and PvP, and I still don't see any real difference in my energy gain. I'm just not wasting as much now. Before I got it faster than I could use it. My Elementalist has an average pool of 85, GoLE, and he still has more energy issues than my Necromancer.

The vibe I'm getting here (apologies to [VIBE]) is that a whole bunch of PvE kids are now upset that they can't just solo areas with their Necro. Boo hoo. It's a multiplayer game for a reason. Work with other people, they will still be happy to have you. I bet most of these whiners were the same people telling the Eles to go cry in the corner when the AoE nerf happened. Well, it did, and Eles are still here. So will be Necros.

Really, the only people that got a legit reason to cry are Mesmer players, cause their class gets hit EVERY FRIKKIN UPDATE because of every other class in the game abusing their energy management.

I can see your point and yes the eles are still here and there AoE are still out there kicking tail dont be mistaken that its just PvE kids that cant solo anymore that is calling for the out cry
and from what i have read this all came around that the necro especially in PvP is overwhelming cause of ulimited energy due to spirits and minons
whats next nerf the monks devine favor cause they can fully heal faster then some can kill?

olly123 · Apr 10, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I mean seriously, I've tried out my Blood, Curses, and Death builds since the change. They still keep chugging right along. No issues. I play both PvE and PvP, and I still don't see any real difference in my energy gain. I'm just not wasting as much now. Before I got it faster than I could use it. My Elementalist has an average pool of 85, GoLE, and he still has more energy issues than my Necromancer.

The vibe I'm getting here (apologies to [VIBE]) is that a whole bunch of PvE kids are now upset that they can't just solo areas with their Necro. Boo hoo. It's a multiplayer game for a reason. Work with other people, they will still be happy to have you. I bet most of these whiners were the same people telling the Eles to go cry in the corner when the AoE nerf happened. Well, it did, and Eles are still here. So will be Necros.

Really, the only people that got a legit reason to cry are Mesmer players, cause their class gets hit EVERY FRIKKIN UPDATE because of every other class in the game abusing their energy management.

finaly soem one else seeing sence

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortis corpus

whats next nerf the monks devine favor cause they can fully heal faster then some can kill?

what do u mean DF, is nice but imo no where near a nerf, what so an extra 45hp heal for free, thats liek half of my spells heal for. this came about because it was being abused and well it got fixed not becuase Anet h8 necros witch a lot of u seem to think

cthulhu reborn · Apr 10, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I mean seriously, I've tried out my Blood, Curses, and Death builds since the change. They still keep chugging right along. No issues. I play both PvE and PvP, and I still don't see any real difference in my energy gain. I'm just not wasting as much now. Before I got it faster than I could use it. My Elementalist has an average pool of 85, GoLE, and he still has more energy issues than my Necromancer.

The vibe I'm getting here (apologies to [VIBE]) is that a whole bunch of PvE kids are now upset that they can't just solo areas with their Necro. Boo hoo. It's a multiplayer game for a reason. Work with other people, they will still be happy to have you. I bet most of these whiners were the same people telling the Eles to go cry in the corner when the AoE nerf happened. Well, it did, and Eles are still here. So will be Necros.

Really, the only people that got a legit reason to cry are Mesmer players, cause their class gets hit EVERY FRIKKIN UPDATE because of every other class in the game abusing their energy management.

I have tried and the only way to play my builds are to change them. You must understand that my skill bar has 8 skills and they all have a reason for being there in my builds. Now I need to do different things and add new skills. Can it be done? Yes. Does it play the same? No. Do I like the new style? No.

Do I solo farm? No...I think it's a rip and I don't do it. Someone showed me the trapper build for UW, I saw that it worked and never used it since.

I don't like it anymore so I try to make that clear. If Anet doesn't care about me that's fine...I'll know by next week and then I'll see if I'll be playing GW or not. Right now I don't enjoy it anymore for all reasons mentioned in this and other threads. But GW will go on I'm sure, just not so sure if I'll be there because the balancing is just getting a bit much overall. I really don't want to see what skills get nerfed again every few weeks to see if I can still play my preferred builds or have to adjust myself to same greater good (PvP) that I have nothing to do with...that takes the fun out of PvE for me.

In fact I have stopped playing today and will await the end of the week and see what Anet will do...very few people will give a damn if I leave GW but that's fair enough isn;t it?

brian78wa · Apr 10, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Wow. Just... wow.

Are any of you whiners even PLAYING with the changes? Cause I have, and don't see a real impact in PvE, or even PvP (where people don't die frequently enough for the 5 second wait to be an issue).

I have played with the changes alot. And there IS a huge difference. As far as PvP(HA anyways) no people dont die that often to notice, the spirits do. Which is where the problem is. However in places like AB and Aspenwood you really notice the hit cause theres people dying all over the place and fast.

As far as whiners go the only whiners are the PvPers that werent good enough to beat a spiritway group. "Oh there too powerful nerf SR." That makes me laugh. If youre not good enough to beat them then get better dont whine about it. The rest of us are just posting our opinions on SR not whining.

So people really need to stop calling others whiners for not liking the SR nerf. Like I said we are just expressing our opinions the only whiners were the HAers that couldnt hack it. The energy gain was part of the fun or playing a necro. No the necro is not unplayable but its not as enjoyable.

And before someone goes and says I dont know anything about PvP Ill stop you right there. I am a PvE AND a PvPer. However MY teams could beat a spiritway team so it didnt bother us.